Firefighter Training Cut
This is from the 10-NBC web site:
I was told that the State over spent their Office of Fire Protection budget so on Friday they cancelled all training until the new budget starts in April. But, the new budget has to be passed by the State and when was the last time a budget was passed early or on time?
Here is some information from the County:
At 2:30 today (FRIDAY) the Office of Fire Prevention and Control cancelled all of our State Training classes planned for the spring 2008. What we have found out is that the State of New York has exceeded their training budget and the OFPC was told yesterday to cancel classes. Please be assured the Fire Bureau is doing everything we can to try and salvage these courses.
We have come up with a plan to be able to hold some of the State Training classes using our County Fire Instructors. Unfortunately, some classes can only be taught by State Fire Instructors on the OFPC payroll so even though half of our County Instructors are State Instructors the OFPC can not let them teach.
I can't express to you how disappointed we are in the State of New York's fire training program. We were NEVER given an indication that there was an issue, in fact, we were told to apply for as many classes as we could hold in Monroe County. the direction from the OFPC was to contact our State Representatives and advocate for training dollars. Obviously this will not help our current situation. More information will follow early next week.
Cancelled Classes:
Firefighter I Blended Learning (on-line) - 2/21/08
Fire Officer I - March 12
Fire Officer 1 - April 7
Classes that are still on:
Incident Safety Officer - 2/18/08
Confined Space Awareness and Safety - 2/19/08
Firefighter 1 - 2/20/08
Intro to Fire Officer - 2/26/08
Intro to Fire Officer - 3/3/08
Pump Ops - Pittsford Pump Ops - 2nd Battalion
Classes we are looking for clarification from State:
Basic Structural Collapse - 2/26/08
Trench Rescue Awareness Level - 3/4/08
---------------------------------------------------
Full Story:
Monroe County Fire Coordinator, Ed Riley, says the state will no longer pay for a firefighter training course. He was notified on Friday.
Riley says 80 firefighters are waiting to be trained and the county desperately needs them. There is already a shortage of fire fighters. "We have a critical need during the day especially for firefighters. We do come up short," said Riley. "We have to call in multiple companies just to make up the man power."
There are 37 fire departments in Monroe County. Many of the firefighters are volunteers. Since classes are being cancelled they fear the volunteers will quit. "Many of the people, especially the volunteers, have taken time off classes and it almost feels like a slap in the face," said Jay France, Fire Training Coordinator.
posted by Scott @ Monday, February 18, 2008
45 comments
links to this post
45 Comments:
this is unfair to all fire fighters and depts , what the hell does the state of ny think they r doing??? is this in every county????? or is it just in monroe county ????? i know where i live there is a FF1 class that just started end of jan or begin of feb i think it started so does that mean that will be cancelled and the students that r in it will get kicked out and have to wait till the budget goes thru??? sounds like someone doesnt know what they are doing , this is the first i have ever herd of this happening
Perhaps they bought too many state fire vehicles to drive up and down the Thruway again. Time for them to downsize their fleet and stay in less expensive hotels.
50 Million to tear down a building, but not a dime for FF training... All I can say is WTF!
Not for nothing but how much does the basic volunteer class cost per student? If we can afford the taj mahal firehouses cant we afford to spend a few buck training our people?
On another note, we are WAY backed up with folks that need this class to operate, we will end up losing a bunch of them just do to frustration.
Does the state pay for training of career firefighters as well through Montour falls, Utica, or RFD?
Many FF"s that have signed up for these courses should call and complain to every representative that they know !!!
In an a era where it is getting tougher by the minute to attract, train, and retain quality volunteers, this really IS a 'slap in the face' of the County of Monroe.
Though, it is typical of the Federal Government to just stop funding, without notice or preparation of any kind.
Ed Riley and Co. will find a way of getting the $$$.
Funny, on the same NEWS page, ERFD is getting over $100,000 dollars from the State !!!
One must wonder, does the left hand know what the right one is doing in NYS ??? Good luck STA
New York State is doing a great job as always at taking care of their residents. First they screw all of us with the taxes and now they cut public safety needs. Why don't we take some of the extra money from the Thruway authority?
Great Job Elliot Spitzer......
does that include the city of rochester and other fire academies or just volley training?
This is ridiculous! Leave to NY to screw something like this up! I agree 9:52, maybe it's time the politicians took a pay CUT for a change instead of giving themselves raises and screwing people who are trying to help their communities! They find money for everything else, can't they fin money for this - a GOOD cause?!?
Well what else is new?, what is the cost of running a class anyway? The way the state is maybe all the depts. in the county could contribute to an account via the county chief's assn.for training to cover a temporary shortfall,then the acct. gets reimbursed when the money comes in,nothing crazy but enough to keep the training on schedule. Thank you state of NY,more mandates with no money..........remember,a firefighter without the proper training is nothing more than a well-informed bystander.
Sounds good 1:20 but I'm afraid that once the politicians see us paying for it ourselves they might expect it forever. (We know how that works).
We need some serious lobbying in the state. If people don't get PO'd it will become standard operating procedure to pay for it ourselves.-UNSAT.
Let get the facts straight here on various comments:
1. Career FF training is paid for ny that FD when they go to an academy for initial certification.
2. How about the local combo FD that do there own volunteer recruit training? They pay for it from their own budgets. Brighton FD sent two of their recruit volunteer to Henrietta FD for training and working out great. Why does this not happen more?
3. ERFD got a Federal Grant, not money from NYS, get your facts straight.
4. Will the various Fire organizations (FASNY, State Chiefs, Fire Districts) band together and petition the lawmakers about this?
The emergency services have to look at other ways to accomplish training at the local level, we all have to sooperate more and interface more to make it happen.
It is a sad thing to have 80 people that want to volunteer and not be able to get the basic training required accomplished.
Fire Away....................
I say this too many times. New York needs to start acting like some other states. I live in California. We have a several Junior colleges that offer a day and evening academy. Students have to pay for it themselves and they recieve about 30 units of fire science credit. The course is certified by the California State Fire Marshall. Upon graduation, you are a firefighter level 1. The great thing about it is you have to be EMT certified as well. By each recruit paying their own way, you have individuals who are dedicated and in the right place. I promise you that only the right people will be working for your department. Something to think about!
It looks like the only entry level class that was canceled was an online firefighter 1 class. The one starting 2/20 is still on. Whats the problem?
I really doubt that the fire departments can't manage to pay for their member's training. Just cut some of the fat from the budget and use it on actual public safety related spending. What good are those chromed out fire trucks and McMansion like fire houses with no one to staff them?
PLEASE! Many professional pay for their own training. If your fire department is unwilling to pay for your training then shame on them. Plenty of taxpayer money goes into the fire departments in the town and that money could go for training.
Make it SOP to have the company pay for taining in Montour falls, so stop the crying and look for alternatives.
Make the volunteers pay for it! Great idea! In an era where numbers are dropping because of lack of time, needing secondary incomes and an overwhelming amout of new certs and refreshers do you really think people are going to line up to pay for training. Great idea for kids going who need or want college credits but for those who don't have that interest (careers outside the emergency services) its an outrage. I love my volley FD and I love being a firefighter. I don't have the extra money to go take classes out of pocket. Providing a service for the community for free should be payment enough. The community should pay for the training whether state, county or federal.
I say let the state start paying for all departments to have paid personnel then. If they don't pay for these classes the volunteers might get discouraged and quit. Seems to me a few classes are a lot cheaper than thousands of firefighter pay checks instead!!
Make people pay for their own training, and even force them to get EMT too. That'll really help us recruit volunteers. Maybe we should have them buy their own turnout gear too.
This is only for volunteers, not paid firefighters like in California. Those academies are designed to get people hired as paid/career firefighters. This is for volunteers to be certified as "interior" firefighters I believe.
This is one of the many reasons that the entire "urban" volunteer concept is a waste of money. Much like my town paying for deputy sheriffs to patrol Pittsford yet I pay for my local police too, state residents with paid departments are being taxed so some kid can volunteer for 2 years before he gets bored or moves out of state.
Take all of that money spent on these classes, the chiefs take home cars, massive firehouses (my local volly dept. did a whopping 450 calls last year ater a 2 million dollar expansion), etc. and most of the inner ring burbs could eliminate volunteers and have paid crews.
Oh, wait, that HUGE FASNY building in Albany exists solely to prevent that.
Also, please note that I said "urban" and "inner ring suburbs" before you flip out. I have no problem with more rural burbs and farming areas being totally volly and helped financially by the state due to the smaller tax base.
FLAME AWAY!
OK, let's get some more facts straight.
OFPC budgets a certain amount of money each year for training and every county in the state is given a certain amount of hours for training.
Monroe County has FAR exceeded their training hours for the year. They have already taught FFI courses above and beyond the alloted hours.
OFPC could have not allowed the county anymore classes to be scheduled once they reached their alloted hours, but they allowed all counties to continue to schedule past their hours because alomost every year some counties dont use all the hours they are given.
Because so many counties scheduled extra courses, including FFI, the state actually reached, and passed, its training budget. That's why classes are cancelled or postponed.
The state's new fiscal year should begin on April 1 if the budget is on time. Then classes can be rescheduled and we can move forward with training as usual.
Trust me, the county didn't get any less training this year, they actually got more.
And the spin that was placed on this situation by both Ed Riley's press release and WHEC are unfair to those who do not know how the system works.
Funding for training has not been cut!
Cutting the budget wouldn't sound so bad if this state didn't waste so much of our tax money for people that won't get a job. I think that the state will get the funding for this training but the question is when. Thats great that some districts pay out of their own pocket for training. Not all can.
5:34, for the most part you nailed it. This is a dead and dying area as are many cities in the northeast. Living large and to excess just ain't gonna' cut it no more. Funds will be provided by the state but the blank check is gone. Time to tighten the belt and use other resourses. GASP, instructors working for free for the betterment of their communities !!! wow, what a concept,, huh? Just some ramblings, ty for reading.
Monroe County has a fantastic Fire Response mutual aid pact. Well, it is time to form "The Training Mutual Aid" pact. With all the State certified instructors and the staff at MCC, any fire organization with a training facility should not be having it under utilized.
The statement "Some classes can only be taught by State Fire Instructors on the OFPC payroll" is PURE bureaucratic B.S. Bureaucratic narrow mindedness and ineptness cannot and will not be tolerated when lives are on the line. This point needs to be driven home to everyone in the OFPC from retired Chief Madison on down. If any of them think that they are immune, go talk to the military people on the receiving end of the unfolding Mine-Resistant Ambush-Protected vehicle inquiry.
The points made about some departments being unable to provide funding while others can points to the extreme inequality that exists among Monroe County's emergency services. Some can afford multi-million dollar expansions while others are just scraping enough together for used apparatus.
The logical solution to this is that consolidation would allow not just for equal training for all but for a standardized level of emergency service.
Combining financial resources from around the county would assure that all stations and companies in a metro department, volly or career, would have the same access to training and equipment.
This problem is not endemic to Monroe County, rather, it is a nation-wide problem. Americans need to start looking to retake control from 'private' fire departments that are not responsible to the citizens they serve.
It is unfortunate that there is not enough public outcry demanding this. It is equally unfortunate that metro fire departments are protested by those who wish to secure their own personal power position. Even more disturbing are those who believe that their tax dollars should not go to support those who live in areas of the county where poverty exists, such as the city. No matter what shameful excuses are used - those who have more have a social responsibility to help out those who have less.
This training cut should be a call to arms for those who oppose the current way emergency services in Monroe County are managed.
Lets not waste our breath on the consolidation debate. It's never.. EVER.. going to happen.
And as another poster pointed out, the budget isn't being cut. Rather the amount budgeted for the year is gone.
"those who have more have a social responsibility to help out those who have less."
really?....do I?
sounds like socialism to me.
9:52 PM Has alot of good stuff to say. "It is unfortunate that there is not enough public outcry demanding this."
The problem is city and county government officals who refuse to act on this because they care more about being elected that doing what is right for the community and for those who serve the community as volunteer or career fire persons. Maggie and Bobbie both balk at looking into this issue seriously because they said they don't want to commit, "political suicide." If the mayor can't get any glory he ain't doin' it!
This should not be a big problem. The NYS Fire Academy has two upcoming courses for those who want the training. Why should NYS spend money on folks when the local departments should be sending folks to the NYS Fire Academy. Back in the day this is where ALL NEW VOLUNTEERS went for training.
Think outside of the box! This academy is a great place to network and meet up with other fire service people. This way everyone is trained to the state standard at the state training academy. Ya' just gotta luv' it!
Floyd A. Madison
State Fire Administrator
"I trust the information and resources provided thru this website will be helpful and informative. Always know two ways out!"
New York State Academy of Fire Science http://www.fireacademyfsa.com/classes/classes.html
Firefighter I
Jul 6-11 and Jul 20-25
Firefighter II Jul 29-Aug 1
Another brilliant move by the beaucrats. Way to go Albany. Glad I moved out of NYS.
The Actual Story:
The outreach training course funds for this fiscal year April 07 to march 08 have been exhausted.
Monroe(about 6 courses) and many other counties were directed to resubmit proposed fire training schedules (course request) with a start date on or after April 1, 2008 in the new fiscal year. This is the first time this has happened in 4 years due to the state wide high demand for state fire training courses. We anticipate that with the new fiscal year training course will be begin as requested.
Please feel free to contact me at the e-mail below if you have any questions
Thomas J. Wutz
Chief, Fire Services
NYS OFPC
thomas.wutz@dos.state.ny.us
So these future firefighters are going to have to wait until the next fiscal year starts in 5-6 weeks? Correct??? What an outrage.... (thick sarcasm) They just have to use this time for in-house training, it costs nothing. I'm sure if they're dedicated they won't quit. If a few do quit...Good riddance. There are plenty of spoiled, whiney wanabees already. Here's an idea, check with a neighboring County to see if their programs have space available. I'm sure the Coordinators Office could provide the phone numbers. Thanks for listening...
To all that are saying that this is unfair is right. Our wonderful governments tell us how and what training we need, but yet and all they cut the funding for that. I enjoy training as well teaching those around me. If our govenments mandate this training then by all means they should pay for it. At my job there is required training that they pay for me to go to. I do not have to pay for it. I thin that if I had to pay for all my FF training I don't think that I would have made the commitment that i have made over my past 15 years as a fire fighter.
Chris
Yea, just what I want to do floyd,work 2 jobs and drive to the NYS fire academy to spend the week or weekend when we have a multi million dollar facility here. Check with the other counties,they are very accomodating. stay safe
"Lets not waste our breath on the consolidation debate. It's never.. EVER.. going to happen."
8:49AM - I'm not wasting my breath. You're wasting my time with your defeatist attitude. There are a plethora of examples out there of regular people out there taking things into their own hands to make substantive changes. It's a classic American attitude to simply write things off as being systemic and therefore unchangeable. Think outside your rig.
---
"really?....do I?
sounds like socialism to me."
10:43AM - You're so right but so very wrong. Yes, countries with socialized programs tend to have a greater sense of the need to help out those who have less. American's are used to many socialized services - who fights your fires? who picks up your trash? who educates your kids? For the majority of Americans, not to mention those who reside in Monroe County, the answer is public servants funded through tax dollars. You're not quite as far from socialism as you think. The difference is that anytime an idea is labeled socialist in the US, the first reaction is to recoil when it shouldn't be. You need to think outside your rig too.
---
"The problem is city and county government officals who refuse to act on this because they care more about being elected that doing what is right for the community"
11:06AM - thanks for your kind words. I'd like to point out to you and everyone else, however, that we are the people who elected them. If they are not fulfilling their role as civil servants, then throw them out. Lead public campaigns. Take to the streets.
I know, I know - many of your work two jobs and need time with the kids. Even more reason to throw them out of office. Their greed and refusal to implement social programs is the reason you have to work two jobs in the first place.
---
In summary - I don't believe for a minute that people cannot take control of their lives. These are clearly emotive issues. Harness that emotion - people's lives and hard earned property are at stake.
And isn't that why we signed up to do these jobs in the first place? For many of us it's about helping people. You are advocates for those who need your help - that should extend outside of your 4 on 4 off.
After reading the list that the site owner just published this whole thing seems to be much ado over nothing. Nice job stirring the pot whoever started or leaked this nonsense to the media. Makes ya' wonder whom is that bored sitting in their cushy little office that they have to resort to such tactics to get noticed.
7:28:
It is a big deal, actually. This is happening pretty much in all counties in NYS, not just Monroe. I'm guessing the individual county had to decide which courses to postpone?
Plus, if you read the article, it says that the MCFB is trying to hold some of the potentially cancelled classes on their own...
"Their greed and refusal to implement social programs is the reason you have to work two jobs in the first place."
yea, funny story money doesn't grow on trees for the government. The incompetence and willingness to spend out tax dollars on useless programs is the reason taxes are so high and we have to work so much.
That could be it or maybe... people worked through the weekend to find solutions to these problems use county money to pay for them. But hey, what do you care if the taxpayer pays for the course twice through their county and state tax dollars.
To former chief Madison, it is all well and good that there are classes at the academy that people can take. The fire fighter one class however is one that many volunteers would have a problem getting to since volunteers tend to work during the time frame of the class. Also how many employers do you know of would let there employee have the time off from work to take that course. If memory serves me right FF 1 is a 13 week class.
Chris
More political BS!!!!! Maybe the people in Albany could run for president and ruin the rest of the country!!
At 12:18 PM, Mr Anonymous (you got *a lot* of relatives that post here) said "Funny, on the same NEWS page, ERFD is getting over $100,000 dollars from the State !!!" The East Rochester Volunteer Fire Department received a FEMA grant. Obviously you are not aware that FEMA grants are part of a government program of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Grants are awarded to fire departments to enhance their ability to protect the public and fire service personnel from fire and related hazards. Notice that New York State is not mentioned at all in this description. Do your homework before posting.
Mike Sirianno
ERFD Member since 1974, and very proud of it.
Dear Mike,
Tax dollars are tax dollars !!! When are you people gonna realize that ALL government money comes from the same pie !!!!???? FEMA, NYS, etc !!! It all depends what agency gets stroked the most !!!
I'm glad your a proud ER member. I wasn't slamming ER or petting the cat backwards.
Now how about that homework, MIKE ??? American dollars are American dollars...no matter WHAT label you put on it !!!STA
Oooops, sounds like Mike needs to do a little 'homework' !!!
Hope you ain't no accountant or grant writer !!! lol
American dollars are American dollars only in a sense that they all contain the phrase "In God We Trust".
Federal, State and Local Agencies have budgets that allocate a set money every year for specific purposes.
This money cannot simply be moved from FEMA for example to the MCFB because it was not budgeted out for that purpose for that Fiscal Year.
Federal and State/Local Agencies must account for all monies received and spent at the end of the Fiscal Year and I believe this is done by the GSA or State Comptroller respectively.
So while the "moving of money" seems like a viable alternative, it really is not.
The NYS Comptroller needs to look into why this money was promised to the MCFB, but not delivered, it was spent someplace.....where.
MRB
MRB,
No matter how you slice it, allocate it, grant for it, it is ALL taxpayer $$$.
When you pickup your paycheck, look at that little section called "taxes". It VERY vaguely tells you "where it goes"...but that's where ALL of the money comes from. Different pieces....same big pie.... Apple, Pecan, FEMA, pumpkin.
6:46
I do not argue with you on that point.
However, monies cannot be easily diverted from Agency to Agency to plug leaks in the dam.
MRB
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home